NC(Sen): My thoughts of Neal vs. Hagan and why YOU should care.

I, as much as anyone, have come out blasting the DSCC, the Democratic candidates, and anyone else who went looking for a new candidate just because Jim Neal was gay. That said, Hagan might very well make a great candidate. I would suggest that no one discount her because of when she came into the race or how. Anyone, except me that is. Because, for me, this race is about the heart of the Democratic Party in North Carolina and it is a gut check moment for Democrats around the country.  At stake is this.
  1. The DSCC fails to bring in any of its top-tier candidates (Mike Easley, Roy Cooper, Beverly Perdue, Richard Moore).
  2. Bloggers put on a press to Draft Brad Miller, who we feel would be a progressive dream, a netroots hero for all of us to cheer and back. He declines.
  3. The DSCC/NC powers-to-be/bloggers decide that state Rep. Grier Martin is our man, until he says no. In the process of his deliberations, state Sen. Kay Hagan backs out gracefully.
  4. We have no one, and then up to the plate steps Democratic fundraiser extraordinare Jim Neal.  Bloggers rejoice, the mainstream Dems, not so much.
  5. We find out why, Jim is gay, proudly so.
  6. Hagan is suddenly back in the race following many harried phone calls from current Democratic candidates worried that Jim's being the nominee will hurt their changes at being elected, after all, he's gay{shhhhh}.

That is where we stand folks, we have two candidates, one who came of his own free will and one who has apparently been lured by the DSCC at the bequest of the local power brokers out of fear that he's not mainstream enough.  That in itself is not reason enough to support Jim Neal, this is:

Priorities

I've got 5 not 3: restoring Protecting our nation and its freedoms, fiscal reponsibility, health care for all Americans, protecting our environment and restoring government accountability to the voters who elect and pay the freight for the elected reps.

On Running
I'm not running this race to lose. I'm not running to make some social statement. I'm running to lead in the Senate for the voters in NC-- something Senator Dole has not done.

When people meet me, they'll see beyond the labels and into my character.


Energy
We have no choice-- as a state and a nation-- to move with a sense of urgency to make up ground and move forward with lightspeed to adress the assault on our environment which ths Administration has ignored. Our state and its natural resources and incredible and are treasure we can't lose-- and that's one battlefront which has been ignored.

NCLB

NCLB simply don't work. It's flawed in concept, doesn't engender positive outcomes and is underfunded by about, say, $50 billion. Catch name with no substance or money to match the moniker.

Money in Politics

As someone who's done a lot of fundraising, I've always referred to political dollars as "the dirty underbelly of democracy." It's repugnant the amount of money required to mount a national campaign-- which I'll do-- but it's gotta change. Public financing across-the-board: the only way to take dollars out of the equation. This is an election, not an auction.

Labor and Smithfield

I absolutely support the right of workers to organize and engage in collective bargaining.

Re. the situation in Tar Heel, I'll admit to not having drilled down on that specific situation as deeply as I want to.

Send me your thoughts-- please.

S-CHIP being vetoed

I think it's absolutely repugnant, appalling and if anything-- the best example of why Senator Dole is OUT OF TOUCH!!!!

We have 120,000 kids in NC who were abandoned by her vote which represent less than 1/2 of the 270,000 kids with no heath insurance.

EVERY child, man and woman in this state and this country should have access to affordable health care. Or nation-- our core values-- are under assault by an Adminstration and those who prop it up-- when a sick American goes bankrupt b/c they're sick.

From his issues page, we find out more.
Iraq

My opponent still backs the aimless policies of the Bush-Cheney administration, which have cost America taxpayers nearly $1 trillion and more than 3,800 lives.

Our troops have done everything we asked - and I don't want to see any more of them die.

It's time to bring them home to the heroes' welcome they have earned, to rejoin their families, resume their careers, and be a part of their communities again.

To guarantee we don't have to send them back in a few years, we need to redeploy small strategic units in the region to counter terrorism and train Iraqi security forces.

And then we need to redirect most of what we're spending there to what matters more -- children's health and Medicare, Social Security, and making college affordable for middle-class families again.

The North Carolina Senate race has one man who is very progressive on the issues, every good Progressive should back him in this race. ESPECIALLY because the power-that-be don't want you to back him.  This race can be the one where we set forth, once and for all: You cannot believe in civil rights for some, only for all.

True progressives, true liberals, even true libertarians should flock to this race and do the one thing that will make Beltway pundits and power-brokers take notice - bankroll it.

And, you can do this in a completely painless way, through my Pizza for Progressives page.  It's a simple idea, trade in a daily latte for democracy. Trade in movie night once a month for Democracy. Say that you are willing to give up a non-essential, comfort for one day or one week EVERY MONTH, and make a difference.  It's that simple. $5 a month, $50 a month, just by giving up something EXTRA.


actblue
It's time for progressives to act, it's time to put up or shut up.  Do you believe in civil rights for all, or just for some?  Do you want a party that still hides those the wingnut Republicans consider unacceptable?  Or, do you believe that a person is judged by the character of their soul and not by the color of their skin, their sexual organs, or their sexual orientation?
John Edwards (President)       $10.00       
Jim Neal (NC-Sen)     $10.00      
ActBlue     $1.00
   

Total     $21.00

Give to Jim, show beltway Democrats that Progressives believe in civil rights.



Display:


Time to put our money where our mouths are. (2.00 / 2)

Give if you civil rights is something you think the Democratic Party should NOT be afraid of.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:17:58 PM EST

I think you misread some big things entirely (none / 0)

Hagan bowed out because she thought Martin was going to give it a go.  He was polling decently, I think most people are still confused why he turned it down.  She bowed out too soon, because she misread Grier Martin, as did all of us.  

Schumer was pushing for Martin over Hagan, so obviously if she ran against him, he would get all the support and depending on when her reelection is, she could lose her senate seat over a primary loss for US Senate.  

I think you misread her actions and the DSCC completely.  The DSCC isn't going to back a non-establishment candidate.  They are going to push money into a race with a big lawyer or someone with political experience.  So you shouldn't really expect them to back Jim Neal in the first place.  Fundraising doesn't play necessarily into political experience.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:25:59 PM EST

I expect the DSCC to butt-out (2.00 / 3)

Until we have a winner in the primary.

I certainly don't respect certain NC campaigns that are calling up the DSCC begging them to find an "acceptable" candidate.

As for Hagan, she has every right to change her mind.
   

State Sen. Kay Hagan announced Monday she will not challenge Republican Elizabeth Dole, becoming the latest in a line of prominent Democrats to forgo next year's U.S. Senate race.

   Hagan, the influential Senate budget chairwoman, had seriously considered challenging Dole. As a woman, she could have blunted Dole's gender advantage, and as a Greensboro resident, she is well-known in one of the state's major metropolitan areas.

   But in announcing her decision, Hagan said that she thought she could accomplish more in the state legislature.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I expect the DSCC to butt-out (1.00 / 1)

1. "certain NC campaigns"
Such as?  I understand that may be the situation here, but if you're going to throw claims out, back them up so it looks like you're throwing more than crap.  

2. Yes.  Hagan bowed out early, because she thought Grier Martin was going to challenge Dole.  You are quoting EXACTLY what I was refering to.  It may come off as insincere, her reasoning, but should she have said she is bowing out because she expects Grier Martin to run instead?  Would have been easy political fodder to nail her with.  Just as these comments can be, now that she is reconsidering.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:51:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I expect the DSCC to butt-out (none / 0)

Just to reiterate, I like primaries, I have no problem with a good primary (not like our current mud-slinging Gubernatorial primary).

I don't have a problem with Kay Hagan either, although some have laid NCs recent budget problems partially at her feet, my problem is with the idea of "Democrats" wanting another candidate because of sexual orientation.

No, I can't name any names, but there are enough people I trust talking about it that I can be sure these conversations are happening.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:03:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I expect the DSCC to butt-out (none / 0)

"but there are enough people I trust talking about it that I can be sure these conversations are happening."

I hate to say it, but that wouldn't hold up in any court.  No real source for your information?  That's like saying, enough people are talking about aliens to know that they must be out there.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 03:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I expect the DSCC to butt-out (none / 0)

Right.  Whatever. This isn't court and the people talking should know what they are talking about.  If you don't like it, don't read it.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 08:25:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I expect the DSCC to butt-out (none / 0)

you are a paid operative.

and you are attempting to change the subject.  too bad you know nothing about the race.


by truthteller2007 on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:01:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Martin simply did not want to be away (none / 0)

from his wife and daughter for a statewide campaign.

Simple as that.

I know, I know, we simply MUST search for hidden motives in the actions of all politicians.  But guess what?  Sometimes they really are just people.


by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:21:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Martin simply did not want to be away (none / 0)

Having three kids, I can believe that waaaaaay too easily.  It's the opposite I find hard to believe.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:41:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Martin simply did not want to be away (2.00 / 1)

Unless he lives in the Capitol, or within 10-15 minutes of it, he is already away from his wife and daughter 5 days a week as a state legislature.  So being in the US Senate wouldn't be any different.  

As for running a statewide campaign, he could just cut into his time as a state legislature.  Tom Allen has been missing some votes to campaign.  Simple as that.  Not to mention they could be with him on a statewide campaign for different things.  

What I'm saying is, he could have easily worked his schedule to where that wouldn't have been a problem.  

So yeah.  The simple answer isn't that simple.  Sorry.


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 03:04:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Martin simply did not want to be away (1.50 / 2)

Hey, next time, do me a favor and read more than six words of my post, alright?  Thanks.  You missed something.  

"or within 10-15 minutes of it"

Get it?  The whole thing you went on a rant on is moot because I covered my remark.  Guess what, I don't have a map showing me the Assembly districts of the North Carolina legislature.  Don't assume people know that.  You're just trying to be a jackass right now and it's working.  

Again, my point was, he could schedule his campaign to where he wouldn't be away from his family that often.  If he really wanted to make the case that his family was the reason he didn't want to run, he should have said the time being away from his family as a US Senator, not campaigning statewide.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 03:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Martin simply did not want to be away (2.00 / 1)

Okay.  So I have to know where every state legislature in every state lives, and where every city and town is within a state, or else I'm ignorant?  Nice logic.

You're not even arguing against my points anymore.  You're distorting them and calling me a liar for whenever I called you out on being a jackass.  I'm done arguing with you.  Take a chill pill and go cool off.  Maybe a walk would do you good.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 03:28:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

About time for you to quit (2.00 / 1)

He lives 12 minutes, in heavy traffic, from the Capitol.

He also looked me in the eye and told me why he decided not to run.  Since I have known him for almost 20 years, I figured I could believe him.

Good enough for you?


by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 04:47:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: About time for you to quit (none / 0)

Yeah.  I said it earlier.  

"Unless he lives in the Capitol, or within 10-15 minutes of it, he is already away from his wife and daughter 5 days a week as a state legislature.  So being in the US Senate wouldn't be any different."

That's the second time my "Unless..." statement has been ignored.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 05:30:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: About time for you to quit (none / 0)

Paid operative.

For someone who does not reside in NC, you certainly have a lot of opinions.

Paid operative.


by truthteller2007 on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:59:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Martin simply did not want to be away (none / 0)

you are a paid political hack who does not even know how to do research.  

paid political hack.  


by truthteller2007 on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 01:24:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you misread some big things entirely (2.00 / 1)

First off, Schumer is DSCC and the DCCC is run by Van Hollan.  

You should rethink, "NObody gives a # WHAT Schumer was pushing for."

Really?  Nobody?  If I'm in the state legislature, and the DSCC is raising money for a candidate, I don't have a solid base to fundraise or get support from.  So as a politician, it is VERY important.  Yeah, I can run anyways, but if anything, I'm giving up my state legislature position for a useless run with no chances.  AKA, I'm going from being employed, to unemployed.  I suppose I don't know your age or financial situation, but come on.  Would you be willing to put your being employed on the line for a VERY unlikely chance?  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 03:12:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you misread some big things entirely (2.00 / 1)

Really?  I blame Rick Glazier for
A. Bowing out too soon
or
B. Not getting back in when his primary opponent quit.  

Shows a lack of committment to the race.  Secondly, AGAIN you didn't read my post at all did you?  

"Here, THEY DON'T, so they are even MORE irrelevant."

What are you talking about?  The US Senate race?  A US House race?  Seriously, put more information into your posts instead of running your mouth with this unecessary attitude.  

I'll ask again, since you clearly didn't respond.  Would you be willing to stake your job against people who are getting the "Special treatment"?  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 03:26:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you misread some big things entirely (none / 0)

I notice a lot of paid operatives in this thread.


by truthteller2007 on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 07:15:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The best man will win in the Primaries (2.00 / 3)

Whether Robert and the rest of us mis-read the actions of the DSCC and Schumer or not, he is OUR candidate.  We, the people of NC.  I will support Neal and contribute to his campaign, not because the DSCC has "annointed" him, but because he stepped up to the plate when the others stepped back.  I don't care what reasons they put out there....I think Jim Neal is the right candidate!


No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.
by momoaizo on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:43:37 PM EST

Re: The best man will win in the Primaries (2.00 / 3)

More importantly, the idea that we would back away from a quality candidate BECAUSE he is gay, that is just ridiculous.

He's right on the issues, he's alright with me.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:49:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The best man will win in the Primaries (none / 0)

The democrats here who back away from Neal wouldn't back away from him because he's gay--they'd back away because they don't think that at this time it's possible for a gay man to win a statewide race in North Carolina.  The mindset is that nominating a straight person would result in a more likely victory, which means we'd be more likely to have one more vote for universal healthcare, not privatizing social security, etc.

Now, I'm personally not saying that is the correct view--I hardly know anything about NC politics--but the idea that the DSCC is backing away from him because he's gay is ridiculous.  Their job is to win, and if they don't think a gay man can win, they won't support him.  (very cynnical I know, but it is the south we're talking about here)


by Terryus on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 03:57:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Excuse me!? (2.00 / 1)

What the hell does the South have to do with it?

Please point me to the myriad of openly gay Senators from the Northeast or the West?  And no, Larry Craig doesn't count.


by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 04:51:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excuse me!? (none / 0)

Well do you really think a socially conservative southern state would elect an openly gay man?  There'd be a chance in Vermont or something (at this point in time), but we should be realistic here.

The majority of North Carolinians don't support same-sex unions (and hence don't support Neal's "lifestyle") therefore, they probably wouldn't support him.


by Terryus on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 07:44:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The best man will win in the Primaries (none / 0)

You make my point for me.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 08:26:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hagan should look to the House (2.00 / 2)

I would much rather see Hagan take on Howard Coble (NC-06).  She's already got great name recognition in the district, she's already got constituents in the district who have elected her before, and she could clean the floor with Old Howdie in a debate.

She would further cement NC's Blue delegation in Congress, and be a welcome addition to Miller, Price, Butterfield, et. al.

I will support whichever candidate wins the primary (if there is indeed a primary; I still haven't seen an actual news story saying Hagan will run. I've only seen bloggish speculation.)

But in the primary, I'm supporting Neal because he came on strongly, decisively, and so far I haven't disagreed with a position he's stated.


by lcloud9 on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:44:41 PM EST

Re: Hagan should look to the House (none / 0)

I don't mind her running for Senate, the more good candidates the better, the better the nominee we'll have to run against Dole.

I just don't like why there was a move to look for another, more acceptable candidate.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:05:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think #5 is unfair, Robert (none / 0)

Please tell me what proof you have that Hagan is getting in because Jim Neal is gay.

I think it's simple - she didn't think she could beat Martin in a primary if Martin had the Party's implicit backing.  But she thinks she can beat Jim Neal.

This is politics, after all.  You still have to get the votes.


by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:18:27 PM EST

Re: I think #5 is unfair, Robert (none / 0)

I think you mean #6. The rumormills are saying that of course the democratzia knew all along about his sexual orientation and were never excited about his candidacy.

They also say a lot of back-channel phone calling was going on to get someone else back in the race.  I'm surprised you didn't receive a phone call?  But, I would imagine you know a certain lawyer in Raleigh that was supposed high on their list of "other" candidates.

I've never said she was getting in because he's gay, obviously she was seriously considering it long before it came down to this. My bone is not with Hagan, I hope she does great, one vote less than Neal, but great. My bone is with a "mainstream" that thinks it is okay to find another candidate because sexual orientation might hurt the party.

That's not what MY party would think like.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:45:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think #5 is unfair, Robert (none / 0)

Never said that, but thanks for the hyperbole.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 08:27:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NC(Sen): My thoughts of Neal vs. Hagan and why (none / 0)

Christine Cegelis, call your office.  Please, not this again.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:39:09 PM EST

Re: NC(Sen): (2.00 / 0)

As a gay man, I was very pleased to hear that a fellow gay guy was in it for the long run. However, this is NC were are talking about, not NY or CA. I can understand their reasoning and dont think they did anything wrong. I would probably vote for Kay. Only because I think she is qualified and probably a better canidate. You don't just go from fundraiser to US sen. canidate, you work your way up!


by boxer4hrc on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:57:02 PM EST

The only thing worse... (2.00 / 3)

would be some guy that wasn't even a fundraiser, and never even got involved in state politics. He'd never win.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:59:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your last paragraph (2.00 / 2)

is exactly freaking right.


by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 04:52:55 PM EST

Re: NC(Sen): My thoughts of Neal vs. Hagan and why (none / 0)

I wish you could name names:

harried phone calls from current Democratic candidates worried that Jim's being the nominee will hurt their changes at being elected, after all, he's gay

What a bunch of wimps. No wonder independents are easily swayed at election time to voting Republican.

Then again, we all want to win. I supported Shuler even though he certainly doesn't represent me or my values. But I supported him wholeheartedly because he could win. I think Dole is vulnerable but I also think that Republicans will use his sexual preference as an pathetically effective scare tactic for NC's vast number of immature voters.


by Drama Queen on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 04:53:13 PM EST

Re: NC(Sen): (2.00 / 1)

This happens all the time.  No, I do not condone it, but I have accepted it for what it is: machine politics.

Carol Shea-Porter defied expectations.  Maybe this man will too.  And perhaps a third candidate may join the primary before all is said and done.


by truthteller2007 on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 04:53:13 PM EST

Re: NC Sen Neal vs. Hagan (2.00 / 1)

I'll be interested to read more about Hagen, but I like what I know so far about Neal.

It's completely inconceivable that an openly gay candidate could win any election in North Carolina, though. There's no such person as Julia Boseman; she doesn't represent the Wilmington district in the North Carolina State Senate, and she wasn't re-elected to a second term... last year. Wilmington. Not Chapel Hill. Wilmington, North Carolina.  


by Christopher Walker on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 09:33:55 PM EST

Re: NC Sen Neal vs. Hagan (2.00 / 1)

That district also wasnt the home of the Republican candidate for Governor.  And that district didnt go for Bush with either 54 or 56% (I forget).


"Keep the Faith"
by blue south on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 10:09:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: NC Sen Neal vs. Hagan (none / 0)

Before we confuse too many people trying to parse all these tongue-in-cheek negatives, I'm not spoiing for a fight on the NC-SEN nomination. I'm glad to see interest raised in the senate contest and I hope to learn more as I observe a clean contest between or among the Democrats who may come forward for it.  

But I have to admit it isn't my top-priority concern for North Carolina in the 2008 cycle. My top priority interest in North Carolina remains facing up to the unfinished business left on our plates from 2006, when national forces coalesced to push a blue dog across the finish line in NC-11, but left a great candidate only hundreds of votes shy of victory in NC-08.

I'm glad we got the blue dog and retired the GOP incumbent in the 11th district, but the failure to fund both races with enough support has left us with a much bigger task on our hands this time in NC-08, because the advantage of surprise is gone.  

In NC-08, one of our best is in a re-match with one of their worst. I'm backing Larry Kissell. If we can make a real contest out of the senate seat, that's terrific. But NC-08 is the most important race, for me, in the New South area, in either chamber.

http://www.actblue.com/page/2008fund?ref code=myddlkissell


by Christopher Walker on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 04:58:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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